Did Harry and Meghan’s Royal racism claims clash over two-hour Oprah chat?

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Meghan Markle and Prince Harry gave differing accounts of when a mystery member of the Royal Family raised concerns about how dark their baby’s son skin might be. 

The Duchess of Sussex placed ‘concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he’s born’ happened ‘in those months when [I] was pregnant’ with Archie.   

But later when Prince Harry was asked about the exchange he appeared to suggest he heard the alleged slur from a royal figure earlier, before he and Meghan got married. 

He said: ‘That was right at the beginning, when she wasn’t going to get security, when members of my family were suggesting that she carries on acting, because there was not enough money to pay for her, and all this sort of stuff. 

‘Like, there was some real obvious signs before we even got married that this was going to be really hard.’ 

Today he doubled down on accusations of racism and said there was a lot of it in the UK in a clip aired on CBS.        

The couple married on May 19, 2018, while Meghan revealed the news of her first pregnancy on October 15, 2018. 

Meghan refused to say which royal had the conversation with Harry about Archie’s skin colour, claiming it would be ‘damaging’ to the person in her husband’s family who raised it.

She told Miss Winfrey that it was ‘a pretty safe’ assumption to suggest that the royal family member was ‘concerned’ that Archie being ‘too brown’ was ‘a problem’. 

When asked if it was ‘important’ for Meghan that Archie be called a prince, she said she doesn’t have any attachment to the ‘grandeur’ of official titles.

But she said it was about ‘the idea of our son not being safe, and also the idea of the first member of colour in this family not being titled in the same way that other grandchildren would be.’ 

Prince Harry – who later joined his wife and Miss Winfrey for the last part of the interview – described the conversation as ‘awkward’, saying it left him ‘shocked’. 

But he declined to reveal anything more about what was said, saying: ‘That conversation I’m never going to share.’ 

In the most anticipated royal interview in decades, Meghan and Harry also revealed: 

• The gender of their baby – a girl due this summer; 
• Kate, the Duchess of Cambridge, made Meghan cry ahead of the royal wedding – but ‘owned it’ and apologised;
• She described meeting the Queen for the first time and having to learn to curtsy  
• Meghan claims she was ‘naive’ when she joined the Royal Family – and never researched what it would be like, or Harry. She said that she was initially welcomed by the royals, but was later ‘silenced’ and felt trapped; 
• She described being cradled by Harry after feeling that she no longer wanted to live; Meghan claimed she begged for help from Palace but denied it because she wasn’t a ‘paid employee’;
• The Sussexes choose to reveal the gender of their baby to Oprah; 

Oprah asked Meghan if Archie was denied the title of Prince because he is of mixed-race, asking if the palace had concerns Archie would be ‘too brown’.

Meghan said: ‘In those months when I was pregnant, all around this same time, we have in tandem, the conversation of ‘He won’t be given security, he’s not going to be given a title,’ and also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he’s born.’

Oprah then interrupted and said: ‘Hold on. Hold up. Stop right now. There’s a conversation… about how dark your baby is going to be?’ 

Meghan replied: ‘Potentially, and what that would mean or look like’.

‘And you’re not going to tell me who had the conversation?’, Oprah asked. 

Meghan replied: ‘I think that would be very damaging to them. That was relayed to me from Harry. Those were conversations that family had with him’. 

Oprah asked: ‘Because they were concerned that if he were too brown, that that would be a problem? Are you saying that?’ 

Meghan replied: ‘I wasn’t able to follow up with why, but if that’s the assumption you’re making, I think that feels like a pretty safe one, which was really hard to understand, right?’ 

Oprah then asked Prince Harry about the conversation, saying: ‘Well, what is particularly striking is what Meghan shared with us earlier, is that no one wants to admit that there’s anything about race or that race has played a role in the trolling and the vitriol, and yet Meghan shared with us that there was a conversation with you about Archie’s skin tone. 

‘What was that conversation?’

Prince Harry replied: ‘That conversation I’m never going to share, but at the time, it was awkward. 

‘I was a bit shocked.’

Oprah asked him if he can reveal what the conversation was about. Harry refused to divulge, saying: ‘I’m not comfortable with sharing that.’ 

Harry continued: ‘But that was right at the beginning, when she wasn’t going to get security, when members of my family were suggesting that she carries on acting, because there was not enough money to pay for her, and all this sort of stuff.

‘Like, there was some real obvious signs before we even got married that this was going to be really hard.’  

Meghan said Archie becoming a Prince was neither her nor Harry’s ‘decision to make’ and said it was palace officials who revealed Archie ‘wasn’t going to receive security’. 

When asked if it was ‘important’ for Meghan that Archie be called a prince, she said she doesn’t have any attachment to the ‘grandeur’ of official titles.

But she said it was about ‘the idea of our son not being safe, and also the idea of the first member of color in this family not being titled in the same way that other grandchildren would be.’  

Oprah pointed out that Meghan ‘came in’ as an actress, a divorcee, an independent woman and ‘as the first mixed- race person to marry into the family’ and asked if ‘being able to fit in’ concerned her, and if she thought about it.

Meghan replied: ‘Well, I thought about it because they made me think about it.

‘But I think, at the same time now, upon reflection, thank god all of those things were true. Thank god I had that life experience. Thank god I had known the value of working.’

She added: ‘I’ve always worked. I’ve always valued independence. I’ve always been outspoken, especially about women’s rights. 

‘I mean, that’s the sad irony of the last four years is I’ve advocated for so long for women to use their voice, and then I was silent.’

Oprah asked: ‘Were you silent? Or were you silenced?’

Meghan replied: ‘The latter.’

She added: ‘Everyone in my world was given very clear directive from the moment the world knew Harry and I were dating to always say ‘No comment.’ 

‘That’s my friends, my mom and dad. 

‘And we did. I did anything they told me to do. Of course I did, because it was also through the lens of ‘And we’ll protect you.’ 

‘So, even as things started to roll out in the media that I didn’t see but my friends would call me and say, ‘Meg, this is really bad,’ because I didn’t see it, I’d go, ‘Don’t worry. I’m being protected.’ 

‘I believed that. And I think that was really hard to reconcile because it was only… it was only once we were married and everything started to really worsen that I came to understand that not only was I not being protected but that they were willing to lie to protect other members of the family, but they weren’t willing to tell the truth to protect me and my husband.’

Harry also mentioned race as a factor when explaining what he and Meghan needed a ‘breath’ from when they decided to step back from work as senior royals. 

He said: ‘From this… this constant barrage. 

‘My biggest concern was history repeating itself, and I’ve said that before on numerous occasions, very publicly. 

‘And what I was seeing was history repeating itself, but more, perhaps… or definitely far more dangerous, because then you add race in and you add social media in. 

‘And when I’m talking about history repeating itself, I’m talking about my mother. 

‘When you can see something happening in the same kind of way, anybody would ask for help, ask the system of which you are a part of, especially when you know there’s a relationship there, that they could help and share some truth or call…call the dogs off, whatever you want to call it. 

‘So, to receive no help at all and to be told continuously, ‘This is how it is. This is just how it is. We’ve all been through it.’ 

‘And I think the biggest turning point for me was… and it didn’t take very long. It was actually right at the beginning.

‘This union – us, me having a girlfriend was going to be a thing. Of course it was. But I – I never expected, or I never thought…’

Oprah asked: ‘Because she was a mixed race?’ 

Prince Harry said: ‘No, just…  just the two of us to start with. 

‘I hadn’t really thought about the mixed race piece, because I thought, well, well, firstly, you know, I’ve spent many years doing the work and doing my own learning. 

‘But my upbringing in the system, of which I was brought up in and what I’ve been exposed to, it wasn’t… I wasn’t aware of it, to start with. 

‘But, my god, it doesn’t take very long to suddenly become aware of it.’

Oprah replied: ‘Yeah, because you said you really weren’t aware of unconscious bias and all that that represents until you met Meghan.’

Prince Harry said: ‘Yeah. You know, as sad as it is to say, it takes living in her shoes, in this instance, for a day or those first eight days, to see where it was going to go and how far they were going to take it.

‘And get away with it and be so blatant about it. That’s the bit that shocked me.’ 

When Oprah asked Harry about how he handled Meghan’s suicidal thoughts, Harry said he ‘didn’t have anyone to turn to’.

He said the family ‘have this mentality of: ‘This is just how it is. This is how it’s meant to be. You can’t change it. We’ve all been through it’.’

But he added: ‘What was different for me was the race element, because now it wasn’t just about her, but it is about what she represents.

‘And, therefore, it wasn’t just affecting my wife. It was affecting so many other people, as well. And that’s… that was the trigger for me to really engage in those conversations with senior palace staff and with my family to say, ‘Guys, this is not going to end well’.’

Oprah asked: ‘And when you say ‘end well,’ what did you mean?’, to which Harry replied: ‘For anyone it’s not going to end well, because the way that I saw it was there was a way of doing things, but for us, for this union and the specifics around her race, there was an opportunity, many opportunities, for my family to show some public support.’ 

He said ‘one of the most telling’ and ‘saddest’ parts of the Megxit saga was the fact that no royal family members called out ‘the colonial undertones’ of Meghan’s coverage in the media.

He added: ‘And that, that hurts.’ 

Meghan accused the press of ‘attacking and inciting so much racism’.

She said: ‘It changed our risk level, because it went… it wasn’t just catty gossip.

‘It was bringing out a part of people that was racist in how it was charged.

‘And that changed the threat. That changed the level of death threats.

‘That changed everything.’  

In the most extraordinary royal interview in decades, Meghan also revealed that the Duchess of Cambridge made her cry before she married Harry – but insists she has forgiven Kate who bought her flowers to apologise.

Ms Markle, who said she was ‘silenced’ by Buckingham Palace officials and felt lonely in London, she was asked about a row with Kate that made headlines around the world after a falling out over dresses for the flowergirls.

Harry and Meghan’s TV interview with Oprah Winfrey started in the US and began with Meghan Markle showing her growing ‘baby bump’ and revealed she and her husband will tell Oprah its gender on the show. The Sussexes also showed Oprah around their new mansion in LA, which has chickens.

Meghan then denied making Kate cry before her wedding in 2018 – and said the opposite had happened. Oprah asked the Duchess: ‘Was there a situation where she (Kate) might have cried? Or she could have cried?’

But the Duchess of Sussex replied: ‘No, no. The reverse happened. And I don’t say that to be disparaging to anyone, because it was a really hard week of the wedding. And she was upset about something, but she owned it, and she apologised.

‘And she brought me flowers and a note, apologising. And she did what I would do if I knew that I hurt someone, right, to just take accountability for it.’ Meghan added that it was ‘shocking’ that the ‘reverse of that would be out in the world’.

She continued: ‘A few days before the wedding, she was upset about something pertaining – yes, the issue was correct – about flower girl dresses, and it made me cry, and it really hurt my feelings.

‘And I thought, in the context of everything else that was going on in those days leading to the wedding, that it didn’t make sense to not be just doing whatever– what everyone else was doing, which was trying to be supportive, knowing what was going on with my dad and whatnot.’

Meghan also said: ‘It wasn’t a confrontation, and I actually think it’s… I don’t think it’s fair to her to get into the details of that, because she apologised.

‘What was hard to get over was being blamed for something that not only I didn’t do but that happened to me. And the people who were part of our wedding were going to our comms team and saying: ‘I know this didn’t happen. I don’t have to tell them what actually happened’.’

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle’s TV interview with Oprah Winfrey has started in the US and began with Meghan Markle showing her growing ‘baby bump’ and revealed she and her husband will reveal its gender on the show.

The Duchess of Sussex had claimed she entered the Royal Family ‘naively’ and didn’t do any research about her husband or the institution before entering it.

Describing meeting the Queen for the first time at Windsor and that she was shocked when she was told by Harry would need to curtsy to Her Majesty.

Meghan said: ‘That was when the penny dropped. We just practiced and then walked in. We went in and i met her and apparently I did a very deep curtsy, I don’t remember it. then we just sat there and chatted. I grew up in LA, I see celebrities all the time. it’s not the same. This is a completely different ball game’.

Ms Markle said she was welcomed by the royals, but then claimed it became more difficult in the run up to the wedding.

She said: ‘Everyone in my world was given very clear directive from the moment the world knew Harry and I were dating to always say ‘No comment.’ That’s my friends, my mom and dad.

‘I did anything they told me to do. Of course I did, because it was also through the lens of ‘And we’ll protect you.’ So, even as things started to roll out in the media that I didn’t see but my friends would call me and say, ‘Meg, this is really bad,’ because I didn’t see it, I’d go, ‘Don’t worry. I’m being protected.’

‘And everything started to really worsen that I came to understand that not only was I not being protected but that they were willing to lie to protect other members of the family, but they weren’t willing to tell the truth to protect me and my husband.’

The couple’s decision to speak to the queen of US interviewers on CBS has caused a transatlantic row with Buckingham Palace after Meghan accused the royals of smearing them.

The Duchess of Sussex, who brokered the interview, has already accused ‘The Firm’ of ‘perpetuating falsehoods’ about her and Harry and said they refused to be ‘silenced’ any more.

The Sussexes have been branded ‘selfish’ and ‘disrespectful’ to go ahead with the shown when Harry’s 99-year-old grandfather Prince Philip is in hospital recovering from heart surgery.

The interview, expected to be viewed by tens of millions of people in the US and millions more around the globe, is considered the most important piece of royal TV since Harry’s mother spoke to the BBC’s Martin Bashir in 1995 after she separated from Prince Charles.

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have today insisted that their Oprah interview would be the ‘last word’ on their rift with the Royal Family. The couple, who will have their second child later this year, said they felt they ‘needed to have their say’ but now want to ‘move on’.

Hours before the broadcast the Queen spoke to the UK in a TV address to mark Commonwealth Day, where Her Majesty stressed the importance of staying in touch with family and friends during the ‘testing times’ caused by coronavirus. In her speech, the Queen said: ‘We can all live a life of service. Service is universal’.

In audio, played over new footage of the 94-year-old sovereign walking past the flags of the ‘family of nations’ at Windsor Castle, the head of state referred to ‘friendship and a spirit of unity’ – all qualities currently absent from her relationship with her grandson.

She said the Commonwealth – which she had keenly hoped Harry and Meghan would play a significant role in before they quit – had shown throughout the pandemic ‘courage, commitment and selfless dedication to duty’.

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s revelations in their interview with Oprah Winfrey were are ‘damning’ and ‘damaging’ to the monarchy, but the institution will ultimately be strong enough to withstand the controversy, royal experts have predicted.

Harry and Meghan’s comments during the two-hour sit-down have ‘lobbed a hand grenade into the family home’ and represent a ‘very serious attack’ on the institution, royal author Penny Junor said.

She said it was ‘absolutely fine’ that Harry and Meghan had wanted to ‘walk away’ from royal life, but questioned: ‘Why destroy the reputation of the family in the course of that?’

Ms Junor said: ‘I do not know why they’ve done this. This is Harry’s family, his flesh and blood, and this seems to have lobbed a hand grenade into the family home.

‘I worry that there will be no coming back from that.’

She said she feels the Duke of Cambridge will ‘probably take a very dim view’ of the comment by Meghan that his wife the Duchess of Cambridge had reduced her to tears.

Ms Junor said while she, with 40 years’ experience in writing about the royal family, treats the interview’s contents with a ‘little bit of scepticism’, that is ‘immaterial because the interview is out there now, it’s around the world and there will be a lot of people who will believe every last word’.

There is a ‘bank of love for the Queen and for the monarchy around the world’, she added, but said nonetheless the interview ‘is damaging’.

The author said: ‘It is a very serious attack on an age-old institution that has served this country extremely well for centuries – and why? Why damage it?’

Ingrid Seward, editor-in-chief of Majesty magazine, said the interview ‘seems very personal against members of the royal family’.

She told PA: ‘It’s a real downer on everyone in the royal family apart from the Queen.

‘It’s probably the most damning condemnation of the royal family and how they operate that I’ve ever heard.’

On comments from Harry about royal family members feeling ‘trapped within the system’, she said: ‘It struck me that he (Harry) wasn’t completely comfortable with what he was saying.’

Asked if she thought he would regret the interview: ‘I think he should regret the interview but I don’t think he will regret the interview.’

Despite the controversy, both commentators think the monarchy can survive the latest scandal.

Ms Seward said: ‘I think the monarchy is definitely strong enough to withstand it. They have withstood so many scandals and so many difficulties over the years. This will – I know it doesn’t seem like it now – but this will pass over.

‘The majority of British people do not like to see the institution of the monarchy attacked in this way.’

Ms Junor said: ‘I think we have just to wait and see what the ultimate fallout of this interview is.

‘It may that it’s today’s sensational news but that by next week, next month, it has faded.

‘I think overall the monarchy is strong enough to withstand it.’

On the Palace’s response, she said: ‘If they say anything my guess is they would express sorrow rather than anger.

‘Traditionally they have kept their mouths closed and kept a dignified silence.

‘I’m sure they are having discussions about how they do respond, but a dignified silence is maybe the best route.’

Anti-monarchy group Republic has called for an honest debate about the future of the monarchy and said the institution ‘needs to go’.

An Ipsos Mori poll of 1,065 adults in Great Britain carried out earlier this month, ahead of the interview, suggested 43% of people asked said the abolition of the monarchy would make Britain’s future worse, 17% said it would make it better and a third (34%) thought it would make little difference.